(forwarding from VNN)
--
Hello my friends, nice to hear so much response. But please, it would
be great if we agreed on some readable method of quotation, because it
would make it much easier to follow the conversation. Thank you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
gHari
Member   posted 09-18-1999 11:35 AM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Danijel,
>My actual advice was posted early in the discussion. I have 
>subsequently tried it myself (remembering when circumstance precluded 
>chanting), and it was very very effective. Very very enjoyable as 
>well. You can try it anywhere, anytime.

Unlike the perception some people got, I didn't write with intent to
insult and criticize, but with intent to provoke. There are questions
and there are answers, and one of the answers is that you find what
really does work in your method and do it, and thus become really
enlightened, instead of just posing as such.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Premananda Dasa
Member   posted 09-18-1999 01:22 PM            
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Premananda, why do you think I would ever want to answer anything you
have to say? Every time I tried to have a conversation with you, it
was completely useless, because you don't know anything and you are
extremely arrogant and offensive. But hope is eternal, so I write.

>And what or who is God ?

Acintya nirguna, sat-cit-ananda.

>I suppose you know all the people in the world, and their hearts, who 
>are chanting Hare Krishna, and therefore know that the result is 
>'pathetic'

I don't have to, I'm talking to those with pathetic results.

>>>But I find it dangerous to think that it was all that real and I 
>>>am getting close, because my guru alaways explained that when you 
>>>think like that, you are really very far. 
>>
>>You can get close only if you're making any progress at all.
>
>Absolute truth is never an object, but it is the Supersubject.

This is completely irrelevant to the discussion. But with this you
just buried dvaita; I didn't know you're from Sankaracarya's lineage.
;)

>If we imagine that we have the absolute in our hand we must be 
>cheating ourselves.

Listen, since God is so great, even the short moments of awareness of
God are enough to change one's life. With proper practice, those short
moments change into ongoing presence, where God becomes a background
of every thought and action. It is not necessary to know God in any
way other than losing your will in his.

>Let me answer that. Becvause it is evident from your postings that you 
>don´t much about how the chanting of Harinama has really affected the 
>hearts of those who practice seriously.

This is a statement of no essence. If someone practices seriously and
gets actually relevant results, I have no problem with that. But if a
method advertises itself as universally good, and the only cure for
the world, and is effective in only 0.00001% of the population, then
it is marginal, not universal. If the method was as good as
advertised, all the practitioners would already be the saints of
highest order, but since it doesn't happen, there must be a problem
somewhere and it's better to find it than to keep deluding yourself
and shooting the messengers.

>If one of your students doesn´t follow your method, whatever it is, 
>the desired result will not be attained. It is the same with the 
>Gaudiya Vaisnava method of mantra-japa.

My method is very limited, it works only with people who are very
close to enlightenment, and they are very close to abandoning the
worldly functioning, but they lack the means, and I provide those.
With people who still have many experiences to live through and see
where they lead, my method will be useless. It doesn't work with
everyone, but in the group where it's applicable, it creates excellent
results.
(Actually the method works with those who aren't that close to
enlightenment as well, but there the transformation of psyche is so
accelerated, that it can create great strain, even madness. Kundalini
isn't to be played with)

>And to surrender to God means to do what exactly? And according to what >religion/practice?

According to my practice. Observing the dearest of the dear, who was
the background of my life forever, the bliss in everything, the
knowledge in everything, and offering all my love... and then you'll
see what follows.

>Wrong Danijel.
>God´s Name identical with Him and Her. 

Prove it. If you do, you'll bury your technique, as I did before with
the same argument.

>But the Name can not be perceived as such if the consciousness is not 
>clear. If a person is chanting while commiting offences, that person 
>is not chanting the Absolute Name, but is only perceiving a shadow or 
>reflection of the glory of the Absolute. If the consciousness is pure, 
>we will perceive the Absolute Name, then we will realize what it is.
>The Name is actually not merely the sound, but when the mercy of the 
>Absolute comes to us at His sweet will, then we will actually chant 
>the Nama proper.

Do you have any personal experience to back that up with? I hate
writing from experience with people who throw quotes from books at me.

>>You can call my Dad in his office, too, if that will make you happy. 
>
>Hehehe, I don´t think you understand that sentence Danijel.

I don't think you understand humor. You should try it, it's good for
health. It's also a quality of those who have a full heart. It just
overflows and all the fun comes out. :)

>>Humility, is that the thing where ten people spit at me, 
>>and I smile and say "thank you for your kindness"? )
>
>If that is your understanding of humility you don´t what it is.
>Real humility is to realize that the Absolute is eternal and 
>inconceivable and that I am a tiny particle of that Absolute. If I 
>realize it, the false ego will disappear.

But of course. The tiny ego will be gone, and the big one will appear,
the one who knows that I Am, and there is no other. The one who knows
that God is the only foundation and reality of everything. The one who
is so full of realization, that he'll have no doubts and questions.
You should try that, too. It's very good for self-confidence to know
that you are so much loved by God, that it can fulfill you forever,
and it'll never go away.

>Because they are not practicing properly perhaps?
>Is everybody humble as a blade of grass for starters?

That's nonsense, because the method is advertised as universal, as
yuga-dharma, not as a special method that only a handful of pure
bhaktas can practice. It is _supposed_ to work with the "conditioned"
people. Otherwise it is not a method, it is a description of the goal,
I already said that.

>"You guys" I assume means the image of a devotee which is in your 
>memory. This is an incomplete image, because it is not based on the 
>truth, but upon the observation of a bunch of immature bhaktas from 
>ISKCON.

You better start giving me more credit than that.

>>but when it turns out that nobody is willing or capable of 
>>discussion, it starts looking ugly.
>
>Another statement out of the blue.

What #$&# blue? This is the naked truth. 

>Lower bonds, such as the porno picture on your website?

:))))) LOL :)))))) No, lower bonds such as the substance of your mind
that sees pornography in beauty. Those lower bonds will prevent you
from. seeing God, because while they exist, no subtlety can enter.

>>A question: what does it mean to say God's name?
>
>It means that The mercy of the Absolute appears in your heart 
>while chanting and thus reveals itself. 

My basic meditation and Angelique's grounding exercise can awaken the
heart to the fullest after just minutes of practice, if not the first
time, then the second, if you _have_ a heart to be awakened, and if
you are willing to surrender to the method without limitations, that's
the only condition.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vaikunthanath das Kaviraj
Member   posted 09-18-1999 10:59 PM           
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>I said that I had gotten a taste a few times AND THAT THIS WAS 
>SUFFICIENT TO SUSTAIN ME.

 If that satisfies you, who am I to object. I'm of the kind that
isn't satisfied with the little things, that's why I need God, and
nothing less will please me. Nothing but perfection will do for me.
I'm not a modest person. Modest people are satisfied with lower goals,
they'll earn money and spend it and go to church on Sundays. Modest
people with lower goals never attain the highest goal. God is attained
only by those who are not satisfied with less.

-- 
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net