Panhead wrote in message ...
>| You may now do that Yogi thing until even your own self can't
>|stand to Bera the lies and ignorance you continue to spew forth.

I see that you're an expert in ignorance and hatred. Well, I'll sure
feel safe knowing that you own a weapon.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Scout

"Scout" wrote:
>> won't work now, unless you could manage to stuff that technology back into
>> Pandora's Box.
>
>Sorry, that "unless" should have been "even if".
>
>Because that is the ONLY way to remove the guns.
>
>Short of visiting space aliens and their "Anti-Gun Beam" (tm)

There is another, even less likely way for people to abandon them, and
that is to develop so much compassion for others, that they'd prefer
being killed to killing (the ones who have a beloved wife or a child
can ask themselves whether they'd prefer killing their beloved ones,
or to be killed by them, and then to imagine that they love every
single being with the same love). This would immediately solve the
problem of violence and weapons would be obsolete. They would also
care enough to see that there are no hungry and the homeless, and that
everybody gets good education. This is what we do for our families,
and we need no guns to protect us against our family members.

However, some people are such assholes that even a notion of this will
seem ridiculous to them, because selfishness and hatred seem to be
more "normal" than love and kindness.

But just think about which world would you rather inhabit, the one of
compassion or the one of selfishness? According to this choice, become
an inhabitant of your chosen world. It is that simple.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Scout

"Scout" wrote:
>> Actually, life itself should be banned because it is the deadliest
>> thing of all - nobody survives it. But in the meantime, I'd contend
>> with removing the guns.
>
>We have already tried a society without guns

A society without guns probably doesn't work. However, a society with
guns only in professional hands might work just fine. The rest could
manage with a spray, and they'll actually get better protection than
with a gun.

(BTW, my newsserver acts strangely; I checked on groups.google.com and
there seem to be more messages than I get)

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: [NOYB]

"[NOYB]" wrote:
>|Maybe for the same reason why people usually wear those: appearance of
>|safety.
>
>Right. The bear's are going to frightened by it's "appearance." You bet.

Actually, what I meant was that seeing a gun should make the bear feel
safer. ;>>>

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Paul Barnes

"Paul Barnes" wrote:
>> Actually, a KO spray is a much better weapon than a gun, at least from
>> the point blank range. You see, it's much more difficult to miss,
>> accidental misfire won't kill you, and the villain is badly
>> incapacitated.
>
>If this potential victim is 80, and has a heart condition, or respiratory
>problems, which a lot of 80 year people tend to have, wouldn't a shot of
>pepper spray, or mace, have a good chance of killing her?

Actually, I'd be surprised if her heart was still ticking after an
encounter with a robber. :))

Come on, this entire thing is ridiculous. I mean, nobody actually
talks about the primary problem, which is human consciousness that
lacks love and compassion. Until this changes, guns or no guns, we
will have a serious hell to live in.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Bruce Mills

aj233@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Bruce Mills) wrote:
>So do baseball bats; so do knives; so do cars; so do buckets; so do
>swimming pools. They should all be banned, too.

Actually, life itself should be banned because it is the deadliest
thing of all - nobody survives it. But in the meantime, I'd contend
with removing the guns.

>: Right now, I live on an island where the crime rate is exactly zero,
>: because it would be morally unthinkable to commit it. Why? Because
>: everybody knows each other, and even stealing matches from a store
>: would completely ruin one's reputation, so nobody ever does anything
>: morally questionable. And nobody owns any weapons.
>
>Which wonderful Island Paradise is this? Fantasy Island?

I know it's difficult for you to believe, but there are still places
where normal people live. The island is Hvar, Croatia.

And yes, people die here, too. Car accidents, cancer, natural
causes... but so far, I haven't heard of any violent acts, or thefts,
other than those committed by the tourists. The biggest scandal I've
heard of was when a wine maker didn't pay the grapes he bought from a
farmer for two years, although he had the money. Wow.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Bruce Mills

aj233@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Bruce Mills) wrote:
>: Maybe this is a better alternative. Imagine, an 80-year old, going
>: through her purse in search of a gun, and then, managing to find it,
>: does what?
>
>She shoots the criminal motherfucker dead in his tracks.

And he just stands there and waits while she goes through her purse?
:)

>You'd rather she
>be mugged, raped or killed?

Actually, this might be inevitable, regardless of her choice of
weaponry. As I said, her best shot might be to alert some cop. I mean,
how much time would you need to take her purse? I would need less than
3 seconds. And if I find a gun inside, wow, lucky me.

>: Actually, a KO spray is a much better weapon than a gun, at least from
>: the point blank range. You see, it's much more difficult to miss,
>: accidental misfire won't kill you, and the villain is badly
>: incapacitated. He can't see, he is in pain and shock, and he drops
>: down unconscious, if the chemical is serious enough. Then the old lady
>: picks up her cellular and calls 911.
>
>Obviously, you've never experienced Mace, pepper spray, or tear gas.

Fortunately not.

>Demonstrations have been done that show that a determined attacker can
>*still* successfully overpower the sprayer, even with a faceful of spray.

Yes, and demonstrations have also shown that a determined attacker can
kill several people with a shotgun after being shot through the heart
with a 9mm. Not a lab test, unfortunately, but a FBI action in Miami.

>If the "Chemical is serious enough" probably means it would have to be
>lethal at least part of the time, for it to be 100% effective in
>incapacitating someone all of the time.

Maybe, but there are drugs that can paralyze instantaneously, like
kurare. I'd be surprised if there weren't a gas that does the same.
But I would guess that an attacker should be _extremely_ determined to
go after me, after I spray his eyes with pepper. In his poor
condition, I can strategically place my foot in the general area of
his genitals. I can also hit him in the solar plexus, just to make his
breathing easier. Mind you, he's survive all that without any
permanent injuries, but he will be in such pain that he'll wish I'd
killed him. I don't know what an old lady can do, but I also don't
know if this imaginary old lady can walk at all.

>And besides, why do cops carry guns, as well as pepper spray, if the spray
>were all that was needed?

It's because they are professionals, and they're likely to encounter
all sorts of situations, much worse situations than any normal person
will normally face. For instance several armed drug dealers with a
really bad temper.

>: If you shoot with a gun, which is heavier and clumsier, BTW, you can
>: miss, or even worse, you can not wound him seriously enough, which
>: will in turn piss him off and make him kill you. Not the best
>: scenario, you will agree?
>
>Obviously, you've never handled any kind of handgun.

True, only rifles, as I said.

> There are several
>models, particularly of .22, .25, and .32 calibres that are quite small
>and easily handled by 80 year old women.

Most 80-year old ladies that I know have a problem crossing the
street, their sight is poor, and their reflexes are close to
nonexistent. As I said, this is not the best example, because such a
lady should better call a cop, or just give the guy her purse and let
him take the money.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: M.G.

legarageremove@mindspring.com (M.G.) wrote:
>Nononono.. nice try on the snipping but the important phrase is:
>" But, until then, I don't need the damn thing, I don't even want to
>be near one"
>
>Ergo, you dont need to be at a gun range if you cannot stand the
>presence of a gun.

OK, I understand that you didn't post from the mensa newsgroup
but from some gun newsgroup, but please, pretty please with sugar
icing, try to understand that there is a difference between the
presence of a gun at the range, with a sole purpose of target
practice, and presence of a gun on the street, with a general purpose
of creating trouble. If you try really hard, you might understand that
I have no problem whatsoever with shooting at circles. This can be
fun, because I could see whether I've lost touch or do I still have
it. I probably have it, because I can "shoot" 1/8 expositions from the
hand with my camera, and basically it's the same thing, breathe in,
breathe half way out, slowly drop it into position, holding the aim,
count, in order to let the hands calm down, and squeeze the trigger
very gently, after counting five (I personally do it on 7). If you
haven't done it after nine, give up, relax the hands, breathe in and
out a couple of times, and then all over again. Try it.

However, if you think that you will impress anyone intelligent by
taking two statements out of different contexts and displaying them as
a contradiction, well, it is a sign of serious despair and a lack of
arguments.

I hate guns. I don't like being around one. But, I know how the
weapons function, and I can use them if necessary. What makes me
uncomfortable is the fact that I could probably find myself in a
situation where I'd have to use it against someone, or have somebody
use it against me. Neither of those situations is appealing to me,
because I would much rather be doing other things, for instance
talking about something intelligent, or eating pizza. I hate the guns
because they result in irreversible action. You can't return the
things to normal after shooting someone, because you either killed or
seriously wounded a man, which is a terrible thing. I hate guns
because I know what they do, and I would really like to avoid the
entire concept altogether. Men are mortal enough even without guns
adding to the problem. So, give me a pepper spray over a gun any time.

And it really is nice to see you gun lovers buying into the stupid
concept that says "people who don't like guns just don't know shit
about them". It makes me smile. :)

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Ratko Jakopec

ratko.jakopec@vz.hinet.hr (Ratko Jakopec) wrote:

>>Ako covjek pocne o njima razmisljati moze samo dobiti volju da sljedeci
>>put priceka da provire pa ih svom silom zvizne.
>
>Nemas ti kapaciteta za mene zviznuti.

:)) Daj se priberi, covjek ne prica o Tebi nego o ovim debilima. :)

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

>legarageremove@mindspring.com (M.G.) wrote:
>>Now remember, for this experiment to work, Danijel needs to have a
>>target subject, in a wind-less room, free and clear of any alcohol or
>>drugs that may reduce the efect of the spray. Also the subject must no
>>be farther than 10 feet and standing still and blindfolded.

Oh, there's more:

"On October 6, 1999, while bowhunting in SW Montana, I startled 3
large grizzlies, a sow and two nearly mature cubs. All three bears
charged me from about 40 yards out, closing the distance between us to
less than 10 yards in little more than a second. The leading sow
continued her charge, head down, ears back, without breaking stride
while the two others hung up slightly behind her. I was carrying the
260 gram size of UDAP pepper spray on my right hip with the hood off
and stowed as recommended in your literature. I blasted a cloud out
between us as quickly as I could. Although by this time she was only
20 feet away, a cross breeze dissipated the oily, orange mist. I let
her have it again at 10-12 feet and discharged a final burst at 7-8
feet. The last burst nailed her square in the face and she stopped
cold. The angry bear then popped her jowls, shook her massive head
about and bolted over the rise from which I had just approached. The
two others followed right on her heels. Although the sow was fiercely
determined to attack me, I was able to effectively fend her off with
no permanent injury to either of us.

When I first moved to grizzly country I carried a .357 magnum loaded
with 180 grain cast core hunting rounds for backcountry safety. I
decided to switch to UDAP pepper spray after reading numerous personal
testimonies on your web site and I?m glad I did. Even though I carry
the largest can currently available, it?s still a weight savings of
well over 2 pounds compared to my heavy pistol. It?s non lethal which
supports my own personal ethics as well as faster and easier to deploy
than a firearm, especially under extreme duress. When not in the field
my new found guardian now lives on my night stand for personal home
security. I sleep very well indeed. "

"We were only about 20 feet from the tent when I heard the cubs squall
and scamper away. Suddenly, I heard popping teeth and a deep "Woof"
from the other side of the tent. Out from behind the tent charged a
very upset bear heading in our direction. I was leading the group and
to our luck was carrying your bear spray on my belt. I carried the
canister such that I could flip off the safety and fire without having
to remove it from the holster. This can of bear deterrent had been
with me for three years and had never been fired, until now. A fog of
the pepper spray zipped out towards a point somewhere between the bear
and me. The fog acted like a brick wall -- as the bear hit the fog she
stopped dead, turned inside out and sped away like a scolded dog.

My camp partners stared in disbelief. Our rifles were slung on our
shoulders and we were not prepared to shoot a bear. We had just
avoided an ugly incident, and probably days in the hospital or even
worse. My partners vowed never to go into bear country again without a
can of pepper spray on their belts. Thanks for a great safety
product!"

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org