soybean2k@hotmail.com wrote:
>dturina@geocities.com (Danijel Turina) wrote:
>
>[post snipped, please refer to last post in "in reference
>to" thread in header]
>
>Wow, Danijel, you clearly have a lot of anger and rage in you.
>So do I, but nothing like that. It was frightening to read it.
>I hope you seek the counseling you need soon. It must be a
>terrible burden to carry so much bitterness around every day.
>I am sorry that you bear such a heavy load and can only hope
>that you are soon rid of it. I earnestly hope that you don't
>misread this post as anything but what it is: an honest
>expression of pity. As a man who's worked in psychiatric hospitals
>for over ten years, I've seen what a lot of anger can do
>the person who owns it, and it's not pretty. You will be in
>my prayers.

:) Well I have to tell you that my friends had a fit of laughter when
they've read how you see me. :)
A question (please answer carefully!): what would you conclude if you
knew for a fact that your guess about me is wrong? What if I'm not a
hateful SoB, but the exact opposite? Eh? I say "answer carefully",
because if this is a non-option for you, your reality chips might
overload. :)

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net

"Devarsi Muni dasa" wrote:
>Srila Prabhupada spreading YOUR teachings? Your JUNIOR STUDENT?

Judging by you, IQ < 80 is a necessary condition for joining ISKCON.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net

Damir Dzeko wrote:
>dturina@geocities.com (Danijel Turina) writes:
>
>> Ma jooj, nisi skuzio. Daj probaj napraviti programcic za to, i vidjet
>> ces da se osjecaj bola svodi na bol:=bol+1. To nije to. Kompjutora
>> nista ne boli, nema osjecaja bola.
>
>Ne boli ni mene zub dok ne dodje do zivca. Onda odem zubaru. Isto tako
>kompjutor moze biti oblikovan da u slucaju porasta vlaznosti ili tempe-
>rature u svojoj okolini poduzme odredjene korake. To je uvjetovano nje-
>govim programiranjem na isti nacin na koji je i moj odlazak zubaru.

To nema veze jedno s drugim, ostaje razlika da Ti osjecas bol a
kompjutor registrira stanje varijable. Idemo nesto drugo: recimo da
hoces napraviti zenski android s kojim se hoces seviti. Fora Ti je da
"ona" uziva, pa ces napraviti robotski klitoris sa hrpom senzora koji
povecavaju neki counter zadovoljstva, recimo

if zadovoljstvo < 100 then uzdisanje else orgazam; ;)))

dakle imas odredjene subrutine koje podrazavaju odredjeno ponasanje,
ali to nije ono sto covjek osjeca kao zadovoljstvo, niti je to pravi
orgazam, to je ono sto zene glume da se frajeri ne bi osjecali
povrijedjenima. :)

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net

cAEsar wrote:
>ja kuzim sto govoris i (molim lijepo imao sam maturalnu radnju iz
>neuralnih mreza :))))) ) shvacam da racunala (citaj: strojevi) nemaju
>svijesti
>nemozes racunalo pitati za subjektivno misljenje zato jer nema subjekta
>- ono samo moze usporediti tvoje pitanje sa nekom bazom podataka i dati
>odgovor ali to je objektivan odgovor - ne ono sto racunalo stvarno misli

E, to. Osjecaj kompjutora nikad nije subjektivan jer nema subjekta.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net

Damir Dzeko wrote:
>dturina@geocities.com (Danijel Turina) writes:
>
>> Ma nije to ne znam sto, dovoljno je da osjecas da Tebe nesto boli, a
>> ne da registriras stanje senzora bola koji pokazuje vrijednosti iznad
>> normale. To moze svaka zivotinja, a po svoj prilici i biljka, ali
>> kompjutor ne moze, jer nema dozivljaj sebe ni u kom kontekstu.
>
>Pa treba samo popikati dovoljno senzora na prava mjesta i sve ih skupa
>povezati. Ni ljudi nemaju senzore posvuda. I kao sto je posve za ocekivati
>iz onih dijelova tijela na kojima nisu senzori ne mozes niti dobivati
>signal osjeta. Ili zelis reci da osjet o kojem ti pricas nema veze s
>osjetilima izvanjskih podrazaja (senzorima)?

Ma jooj, nisi skuzio. Daj probaj napraviti programcic za to, i vidjet
ces da se osjecaj bola svodi na bol:=bol+1. To nije to. Kompjutora
nista ne boli, nema osjecaja bola.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net

Damir Dzeko wrote:
>dturina@geocities.com (Danijel Turina) writes:
>
>> Ma ne osjeca, njemu se samo mijenja neka varijabla, ali nema onog tko
>> osjeca, nema subjekta, to je problem. S tim sam se dosta dugo
>> zafrkavao kad sam se bavio slicnim idejama - napravis stroj koji
>> misli, funkcionira itd, ali nema svijesti o sebi, ne osjeca, recimo
>> senzor temperature ima odredjenu vrijednost i kad dosegne neki
>> kriticni prag stroj udje u mod u kojem veli "joj kak je vruce", ali to
>> nije to.
>
>U tako strogo definiranom smislu osjecanja rijetko bi i koji covjek prosao
>kao osjecajno bice.

Ma nije to ne znam sto, dovoljno je da osjecas da Tebe nesto boli, a
ne da registriras stanje senzora bola koji pokazuje vrijednosti iznad
normale. To moze svaka zivotinja, a po svoj prilici i biljka, ali
kompjutor ne moze, jer nema dozivljaj sebe ni u kom kontekstu.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net

Damir Dzeko wrote:
>"Matija Kolaric" writes:
>
>> Nije moguce covjeku "natjerati" stroj da osjeca.
>
>Prvo treba definirati sto znaci osjecati. Robot koji ima foto senzore osjeca
>promjene u kolicini svjetlosti koja dopire iz okoline. Dakle, on osjeca neke
>elemente fizicko/energetskog plana.

Ma ne osjeca, njemu se samo mijenja neka varijabla, ali nema onog tko
osjeca, nema subjekta, to je problem. S tim sam se dosta dugo
zafrkavao kad sam se bavio slicnim idejama - napravis stroj koji
misli, funkcionira itd, ali nema svijesti o sebi, ne osjeca, recimo
senzor temperature ima odredjenu vrijednost i kad dosegne neki
kriticni prag stroj udje u mod u kojem veli "joj kak je vruce", ali to
nije to.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net

"Devarsi Muni dasa" wrote:
>Danijel Turina wrote in message ...
>>"Devarsi Muni dasa" wrote:
>>>or that an intimate aquaintance
>>>with your good self is a pre-requisite for being God. Very revealing!
>>
>>John, 5,19-47.
>>Have a nice illusion.
>
>My guess is that you are trying to refer to John 5:44:
>
>"How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no
>effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God."
>
>Am I correct?

Actually I meant the entire range, 5,19-47, and of course 5,44 is also
correct. But I would put more accent on 23, 30-32, with special accent
on 37-40:

"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither
heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. You do not have His
word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent. You
search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal
life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come
to Me so that you may have life."
--

When I came to this group I told you who I am and where I come from,
yet you did not understand, and you remained in your arrogance,
arguing with me and insulting me. So be it, if you choose to dwell in
a state of spirit where you do not know me and do not believe me, you
will remain very remote from God's glory.

>To that I say that we have not accepted any praise for ourselves here, we
>have only offered praise.

You offered praise to your arrogance and self-indulgence, and there is
no truth in that.

>Look for yourself, each time someone offered
>praise to another, that praise was either deflected back towards the giver,
>or dismissed as action in duty. There is a vast divide between such giving
>and receiving of praise.

In alt.flame.niggers, if someone says a total lie and a grievous
insult pointed towards black people, he will be applauded by the
likely minded. In the same manner, when one of you spits in God's
face, you applause each other, instead of feeling remorse and pain. If
there was any connection with God in you, you would know me, but there
is none, and it is obvious from the fruits of your deeds. Your
organization, that Prabhupada founded, is a dark pit of foul blasphemy
and crime, and it should be removed from the face of the Earth,
because it represents a disgrace. And praising a man (Abhaya
Charanavinda Bhaktivedanta Svami) who created such a disgrace, as a
pure bhakta under God's protection, and giving him God's name as an
attribute (Prabhupada), does not look very good. Prabhupada taught you
how to insult and be rude, because he himself set an example for that.
In every book that he wrote he insulted some gentle and wise people,
calling them names. People of his kind dwell in the hell of judgment
that they themselves created. He raped all the scriptures that he
translated beyond recognition, to a degree where they represent an
outrage and a mockery. His perversion of the original thoughts is a
stain on the face of vedanta, and you, his followers, represent a
materialization of that stain, you are an empty, puffed up falsehood,
dressed up for a masquerade, posing as saints. I once thought that
people can be stuck in a false religious system because they want to
find God, but they lack the means, and if they were shown the means,
they would follow them to God, but gradually I understood that I was
mistaken. People follow false religions because they themselves are
false, and they resonate with the falsehood. Their goal is not the
truth, it's the falsehood that gives them space to grow into their
potential for abuse and ego inflation. ISKCON is a wonderful example
of that. It is built on falsehood by a fake, and it is maintained on
falsehood as it harbors abuse and crime. If decent people were
misguided enough to fall into such a foul pit, they soon left in great
haste, because God whom they seek was nowhere to be found there.
How Prabhupada looks to me? It looks as if a junior student of mine,
who lives out of town and comes to visit me twice a year, maybe, after
my death decides that it would be cool to spread my teaching (that he
didn't understand in essence, only in form). He then goes to the USA
and makes himself a cult. Then, when my older students, the wise ones,
who were with me all the time and who are initiated into my
consciousness, tell him to stop that nonsense, he starts telling his
followers not to listen to Tea, Zvjezdica, Romana, Domchi, Sasa and
the others, because they have perverted Danijel's original teaching,
and he's the only one who remained faithful, and that they shouldn't
listen to what they say or they will "fall from grace". And since I
would be dead, I wouldn't be able to rectify the misconception and
tell him that he's an imposter and destroy his foul deed - the only
thing that would remain for me would be to be reborn on Earth again,
and start something completely different and unsoiled, and destroy the
perversion of the old teaching.

>"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: `Hear, O Israel, the
>Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart
>and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
>The second is this: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no
>commandment greater than these."

This commandment will testify against you on the day of your judgment.
You will be asked how well did you implement it in your life, and you
will be silent in shame. Better improve before that happens.

>First, we see Jesus declare that God is One. So, your remark that I
>worship the wrong God is disputed. There IS but ONE God.

You can worship whatever you like, if it's not the true God, it's a
false god, and such false god you have all locked within your hearts,
guiding you to even greater corruption. If you knew the real God, you
would know without a doubt who is talking to you, but you do not. You
think that you render your god service by attacking the one sent by
God to teach you, and you praise another of your kind.
-
Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I
proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My
own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am
saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father
the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a
murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because
there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his
own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I
speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
(John 8,42-45)
-

>Second, we see Jesus declare that the two most important commandments
>included loving your neighbor. Should we love our neighbor, but not praise
>his service to God?

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off.
(Mark 9,43)

>"performing first-class worship of My devotees...[constitutes] actual
>religious principles, by which those human beings who have actually
>surrendered themselves to Me automatically develop love for Me."
>
>The Lord wants to see us praise, honor, and respect his devotee. Though I

Why then have you rejected me? It is because your god is false and you
worship the servants of the falsehood.

>agree with you that I am heavily illusioned, my mind is very clear on this
>subject. This is the nature of revealed knowledge, passed directly from the
>source of knowledge, Lord Krishna. I have no qualifications at all, yet I
>am able to pass on this transcendental information to you because I am
>repeating what the Lord has said, not what I, or some scientist, or some
>machine (created by some person) has observed.

You have no knowledge whatsoever of God, and the scriptures you have
read are useless to you, for you lack the spirit needed for their
understanding and interpretation.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net

"Devarsi Muni dasa" wrote:
>or that an intimate aquaintance
>with your good self is a pre-requisite for being God. Very revealing!

John, 5,19-47.
Have a nice illusion.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net

"Devarsi Muni dasa" wrote:
>>I see that you're all very pleased with yourselves. Did any of you
>>think of asking God how he feels about your little celebration?
>
>
>Yes, just yesterday.
>
>He said: "Danijel who?" ;)

Maybe you're praying to the wrong God.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net