X-Ftn-To: Wade Humeniuk

"Wade Humeniuk" wrote:
>"Danijel Turina" wrote in message
>news:ga7nftcp8vfa1uu405vke4jivmevencrfe@4ax.com...
>> You'd most certainly know. Your astral body looks like it's been
>> through a blender.
>
>Would you please clarify how you "see" that? This is a serious question, I
>am not being flippant. I would agree that FSC needs grounding.

Emotional chaos - passionate, superficial sparks of feelings and
thoughts, like popcorn popping. Very involved and troubled with this;
there's also emotional pain, total lack of focus, obsession with
events in one's own emotional world and a total lack of contact with
reality; she observes reality only by effects on her inner world, and
if something causes pain, it is evil and crazy and responsible for her
pain and should be destroyed, depersonalized, gone!

She totally lacks inner peace, which prevents her from looking into
depths of consciousness, and she should start practicing immediately
in order to put balance into her inner world. The trauma from her
astral needs to be cleared out, I strongly suggest up-stream kriya and
resonance.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Gwailoh-9

Gwailoh-9 wrote:
>>I find it theoretically impossible, because drugs alter the lower
>>levels, the physical matter of the body and cerebral prana.
>
>theories, so what? At one point, theory said that a bumble-bee can't
>fly, too much mass & not aerodymic. And yet, we all see them flying

Hm. Allow me to explain.
You have, of course, seen heated air, over a hot car roof in summer,
or above asphalt, or in a desert? It vibrates, fluctuates, it is in
constant buzz and motion. It doesn't allow you to see far, or with
accuracy. Well, this is the same effect that I can see in people who
use drugs, it's like trying to see something through kilometers of
heated air. Yoga is supposed to manage the exact opposite, to calm
down those fluctuations and create perfect stillness, in order for a
person to be able to perceive anything subtle. This is why I think
it's theoretically impossible for drugs to produce genuine spiritual
visions of a high order.
But, now it comes to my mind that all things come to our physical mind
through some cerebral activities - including the spiritual
experiences. Now, in the right circumstances, it is conceivable that
even electrical stimulation of the cortex, or some chemical substance,
could trigger a response on the physical plane, that would get a
person in touch with some higher level. I've heard of experiments
where scientists electrically stimulated a part of human brain and
produced religious visions similar to the near-death experiences. So,
I don't know, it's possible that some drug can do that, but I never
saw this in practice, it's just a theory of mine, and I could be
wrong. I did, however, have the opportunity to see how MJ and XTC
create more noise, instead of calming it down.

>>> snip. .. It depends on what you call spiritual. Some people experience
>>aliens talking to them, and call this spiritual experience. Some talk
>>to their grandmother's ghost, and call that spiritual. Some get high
>>on MJ and say that they experience God's love. Some take LSD and say
>>that they are everything.
>
>yes right, good point, it is important for us all to be using the same
>definitions. ... maybe this is a way at pointing at a cultural
>problem, a of valuing Eastern Spiritual Theory over (and at the
>expense of) Shamanistic experience?

Maybe, I don't know. I'm kinda skeptical about shamanism, it looks to
me like they're messing up with the lower astral, and that it has
little to do with the elated experiences of hinduism, buddhism or
christian mysticism.

>>But, if you know how to look, you can see _where_ their experiences
>>take place, you can see how their higher bodies behave, and after
>>you've seen some cases, well, you decide that drugs are simply a
>>nuisance.
>
>well, i can't really argue with that. you've got this talent &
>experience, and i don't. sure wish i did though!

Actually, it's just practice, not a very big deal. Those abilities
come as a side-effect of yogic practice; some of my students are even
better at this than myself.

>>It's simply harmful and has no good sides.
>
>medically is a wonderful pain-killer, which a very valuable property

Probably, if you're in a state of terminal cancer and you don't mind
the addiction and brain damage.

>>It drains the dopamine from the brain and permanently destroys the capacity for experiencing
>>bliss. That's why the first experience with heroin is the most
>>powerful; gradually, the effect decreases, and after a while you have
>>to take it just to be normal, not to get "high".
>
>but 'permanently' might be going a bit far hey? I don't know anything
>about dopamine. (a neurotransmitter. there, thats about all)

I think it's like squeezing an orange; you do get some juice, but once
you do it, you can hardly recharge the orange. I think it could be
possible to reverse certain extents of damage, though.

>I do know opiates plug-in to the endorphin receptors. And if brain is
>getting free endorphins, it doesn't bother to make any of its own, so
>that is why you need to keep taking it to feel high -> fell normal ->
>not feel bad. That process _is_ reversable.

I don't think it's about producing anything new, it's about depleting
brain's reserves and destroying the receptors, so they become less and
less sensitive to the similar chemicals. Basically, it's like killing
your eyes with too much light.

>>At this stage, you're an empty shell that was once a human being.
>
>But there's many ex-addicts out there who have 'regained their
>humanity' though, thankfully! Plus, I can sure tell you're not a
>street social-worker ;-) [joke]

Nope. :)

>knowledge isn't much either! I haven't looked into the science (or
>anything) of opiates in very much depth. I'm sure it is quite likely
>there are more serious effects i don't know about.

Yes, I'm certain that there are; I read some articles about it, but I
didn't go in depth, unfortunately.

>>>I'd be really surprised if
>>>you found he was another spiritually-dead zombie.
>>
>>Actually, I saw some "renowned spiritual teachers", like Sai Baba or
>>Maheswarananda, and none of them looked impressive at all. Most of my
>>friends are more enlightened than they.
>
>I haven't heard of Maheswarananda, but i have heard of Sai Baba.
>There are/were many of his worshippers here in Australia. I think he
>has been conclusively proven to be a con-man. He was reknowned for
>'manifesting' gifts - he would pull 'Holy Ash' or rings or necklaces
>'from out of the air' ... and give them to his worshippers. Really
>blew their minds. But it has been captured on video that he was just
>a magician, he was pulling them out of his sleeves.

Yes. It seems that he's also a pedophile.
Interestingly, though, I did see an enlightened person in his
ashram... a 12-year old girl from Himachal Pradesh, who came with her
parents and helped in the female part of the western canteen.

>I saw the footage in a great tv documentary on the guru-busting
>'Indian Rationalist' group, a bunch of hard-thinking skeptics who are
>trying to rid India of manipulative con-artist guru's.

Actually, I think that those guys are fanatics. They are against cons,
true, but I think that they're against God, as well. They resemble the
19th century pro-scientific mentality on the west, when we still
thought that science will solve all our problems.

>>You sound like you really need that to be true. ... So, it's not that my
>>experience is as limited as you think.
>
>i don't mean to say that in a shitty way Danijiel. I'm not trying to
>depreciate your experiences. I just mean look: i'm being presented
>with one internet-ghost saying he has this special insight &
>experiences with a number of people in his life. (admittably a very
>special life, with this second-sight ability). I haven't heard
>similar statements (astral ripping etc) anywhere else before.

Well, I have, it's not at all that uncommon... you can subscribe to
the kundalini-gateway list, http://www.kundalini-gateway.org , and if
you ask them, they'll probably have many similar stories to tell. Some
of them had experiences that are strange even by my standards. :) When
you eliminate the kooks, you'll still get a significant number of
folks who can see auras better than I can.

>But then I have to weigh that up against the other side of the story,
>which is the weight of many, many scholerly books on this subject, the
>opinions of widely known & respected intelligent men (like Ram Dass,
>Aldous Huxley, William James, Terence Mckenna, Jonathan Ott, etc), and
>yes, my own personal experiences. not your problem to deal with, its
>mine. But you see how i can have trouble with just taking your word
>on this matter to be my guiding light?

Well, it isn't just _my_ word, after all, there was a quote from Ravi
Shankar who had experiences very similar to mine, you know... that's
how I jumped into the thread.

>And, "Do i really need this to be true" you ask?
>
>Well yes, i suppose i have invested a lot of energy into developing a
>generally positive opinion this big subject('drugs'). So naturally, i
>would have a bias and resistance to throwing it all onto the garbage.

Of course, I understand that. And, I'm not _necessarily_ against all
drugs, it's just that I never saw any positive effects from them on
anyone. I did hear some people say that they got their first
experiences of cosmic consciousness from LSD, though, but those people
didn't impress me as much as the folks who got even greater
experiences in a natural way. It _is_ something, though.

>But i believe i can, and do, recognize this. I don't see myself as
>steadfastly ignoring all negative opinions & data on the subject.
>I've already given the original poster (pinch hitta) my thoughts,
>which was to trust the advice of several experienced Yogis, and give
>away the habitual use of marijuana, or at least try this and see what
>changes. That is not blindly holding on to a 'drugs are good'
>position. (not that you clearly accused me of such).

Well, I think we're having a pretty nice conversation here; some of
the stuff really makes me think, and this is good.

>>But, let me tell you a story:
>>My wife was formerly a prominent member of the "techno community" in
>>Croatia. She smoked pot and took XTC; she even took it the night
>>before the day I first met her;
>
>so i gather she was a drug abuser, not a responsible user.

No, I didn't say that. She smoked MJ every now and then - not very
often, though - and she used XTC only about four or five times in her
life. Still, it was enough to cause serious havoc.

>Also not at all
>surprising that after one year _without_ psychoactive drug abuse, and
>*with* yoga, your help & concentration-work that her mental state is
>better than ever. (congratulations by the way, good news!)

:) Thankyou. Although, it is my opinion that this recovery can be
contributed solely to yogic practice; I know a friend of hers, who was
also taking the stuff, and stopped about the same time, and whose
memory and concentration are still very much impaired - she didn't
practice Kundalini-yoga. So, it seems that one has to work very hard
to recover, and you can easily imagine that this energy could be
better used to further enhance a healthy mind, than to fix
artificially created damage. Energetic yoga is powerful, but it's
hardly omnipotent, and it's my opinion that one should take really
good care of his body, because it's damaged more easily than repaired.
Just four or five damn pills took more than a year of healing.

>>I could see the effect in her brain
>>better than you can see the monitor in front of you, while you read
>>this. I countered that effect, and in spite of that I raised her
>>consciousness so much, that she spontaneously performed kecari mudra
>>and kevala kumbhaka in combination, at the table in the bar where we
>>had coffee - just because I extended my consciousness within her.
>
>again, very cool! you are lucky Danijiel, this sounds incredible!

Yes, incredibly good. :)

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Dharmadeva

"Dharmadeva" wrote:
>Having now read the extracts, the book is nothing original, just plucking
>things here and there and making a mish -mash

:))) You mean, you didn't read it. :) OK, I don't read your spam,
either. :)

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Gwailoh-9

Gwailoh-9 wrote:
>>No. He was left with a small blue scar in the throat, after ingesting
>>all the poison that threatened to destroy the three worlds and
>>everybody in them.
>
>but, but ... what about the one with blue skin all over? I know i've
>seen pictures ... it most likely was in a Govinda's krishna
>restaurent - was about Krishna?

Yes, it's Krishna. Krishna actually means "black", not blue.

>>>Curiously,
>>>the psilocybin mushroom turns blue when picked, which is one of the
>>>ways to help distinguish it from poison mushrooms. coincidence?)
>>
>>Not even coincidence, except for the blue color.
>
>oh well, no worries, just a little pet theory of mine. i've no way to
>back it up, it was just some curious (to me) correspondences

:)

>>Besides, mushrooms are dangerous. You can't rely on the exact chemical
>>balance in most species; the same species of mushrooms builds up
>>different chemicals, depending on the terrain and climate. The
>>Russians, for instance, use amanita muscaria with vodka in order to
>>get high.
>
>Hey check this out, it might not be only the Russians & Siberian-Tuvan
>Shamans. Perhaps it was also the Tibetan Buddhists!

:) Perhaps it was Bon-po, not buddhists. Now, _they_ are the kind of
guys I'd believe to be using that stuff. ;))

> http://www.sirius.com/~holy/mushroom3.html Has beautiful pictures of
>Eastern mandalas & statues & art with mushroom iconography, eg:Hari
>Hari holding the mushroom - Hari Hari is a Hindu deity that is Shiva
>and Vishnu combined. Many times Hari Hari is portrayed as androgynous
>(containing both male and female organs), which is another symbolic
>reference to the mushroom. Also has this text:

I think that most of these references are a result of a vivid
imagination, and a desperate attempt to confirm a weird theory, like
Daniken who saw aliens everywhere.

>Tibetan book of the dead wherein the authors explore the concept that
>the book is not only for the dead and dying but that it is in fact a
>manual of the of-of-body realms experienced when taking LSD.

This is utterly wrong, Bardo Thodol is explicit in its instructions,
read it and you'll see for yourself. Everything in it is related to
the post mortem state. For God's sake, it's recited to the decaying
corpse, while fluids come out of its bodily openings.

>S. Hajicek-Dobberstein, and "When Gods Drank Urine": A Tibetan myth
>may help solve the riddle of soma, sacred drug of ancient India, by
>Mike Crowley.

Soma is in fact a substance produced within the body as a side-effect
of higher consciousness. You can even smell it, because people who
have it within them radiate a wonderful scent, which is similar to
something floral, but not quite. My dirty clothes smell better than
the clean ones, because of it. The tantric theory said that the urine
of such person contains the substance, and if a student ingests it, it
can trigger spiritual refinement and help his yogic practice. I,
however, don't think this to be true. Soma is not the cause of the
spiritual state, but the result. An airplane makes noise, but making
the same noise won't make you fly, if you see what I mean.

>>So, if someone wants to get high, mushrooms aren't very safe, you can
>>get yourself killed just like that.
>
>or you could have said: "So, if someone wants to EAT, mushrooms
>aren't very safe, you can get yourself killed just like that". ...
>and yet, you go ahead and do just exactly this. are you crazy????

The analogy is wrong. In fact, I know exactly what kinds contain what
chemicals, and the ones that are unpredictable, like cortinarii or
clitocybe some amanitae, I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, let
alone eat them. However, there are species that are totally harmless
and their chemical composition never varies with temperature, soil
composition etc - like boletaceae, for instance. You have amanita
cesarea, a mushroom that is delicious and is _never_, absolutely never
toxic, under any circumstances, nor contains any psychotropic
substances. Or, boletus edulis, or macrolepiota procera.
There are dozens of species that I know to be edible, but I'll not eat
them because they can be mixed up with something poisonous, or they
belong to a family that is known to occasionally contain
psychotropics.
But, even the good, kosher species contain substances that, if you
drink alcohol with them, can have interesting effects on you. :) Good
ol' macrolepiota procera can get you high as a kite laughing at
everything if you sip wine with it... not always of course, but it can
happen. Mushrooms are a very strange territory even if you know them
well.

>no, you aren't. you are have educated yourself, you know what you
>need to look for, and what you need to beware of.

Yes, I need to beware stuff that kills you, makes you sick or makes
you think your TV is God. :)

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Formerly Seeking Connection

Formerly Seeking Connection wrote:
>>You'd most certainly know. Your astral body looks like it's been
>>through a blender.
>Gee thanks I really needed that.
>You know hostility is associated with heart attacks.
>It's been well documented.

I guess so. But, if you observe more closely, you'll see that I'm not
at all hostile, merely objective. You're pretty fucked up and I'd
suggest certain practices that could improve your condition, but I
guess you'll not be inclined to listen.

In case you do, try Angelique's grounding exercise at
http://www.list-server.net/kundalini/ground.html or my basic
meditation at http://www.danijel.org/eng/basic_meditation.htm
That's for start. Then, if you're interested, I could teach you the
affirmations for the basic elements, which would help you build up
your balance.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Gwailoh-9

Gwailoh-9 wrote:
>Danijiel, i think maybe your 'pranic-observations' aren't
>all-encompassing.

This is a very strange thing for you to say. Of course they're not
all-encompassing. I didn't meet all the people in the world who used
all conceivable substances. But I didn't meet anyone who used any
drug, and had an experience that I would call spiritual. Never.
However, some of them talked about spiritual experience, while I
observed their experience, and it took place within their astral body,
not in the reality. It's like vivid dreaming, a distorted perception,
sometimes pleasantly distorted however.

>I have come across this legalisation webpage
>http://www.tlmp.org/persecution.html that has many examples of ancient
>traditions that revere psychedelic plants as aids and pathways to
>spiritual experience.

I didn't say that people never used drugs for spiritual purposes, but
I would seriously question any claim of drug-induced experience that
surpasses lower sublayers of the mental plane. For details see
http://www.danijel.org/eng/levels.pdf
I find it theoretically impossible, because drugs alter the lower
levels, the physical matter of the body and cerebral prana. This
causes alterations that can alleviate experiences of the astral, and
sometimes, with drugs such as marijuana or XTC, some reminiscences of
the mental plane. LSD can actually cause your astral to break and you
would possibly, in some cases, experience open matter, open prana or
open astral (often interpreted as cosmic consciousness), with
side-effects that can seriously disturb your mental health.
Furthermore, the thing is stored in the brain and after a while you're
stoned without even needing to take the stuff. This caused some guys
to blow their brains out.

>(which is contrary to your statements that they
>are spiritually deadening).

It depends on what you call spiritual. Some people experience
aliens talking to them, and call this spiritual experience. Some talk
to their grandmother's ghost, and call that spiritual. Some get high
on MJ and say that they experience God's love. Some take LSD and say
that they are everything.
But, if you know how to look, you can see _where_ their experiences
take place, you can see how their higher bodies behave, and after
you've seen some cases, well, you decide that drugs are simply a
nuisance.
Before I had the opportunity to give a good look to the actual drug
users, and I mean _good_ look, I was actually thinking that canabis,
in its pure form, could be useful, and that some drugs might actually
produce genuine spiritual effects, if you know what you're doing.
Today, I think that _all_ drugs except marijuana are extremely harmful
and cause heavy damage to the brain, and that MJ can in _some_ cases,
if you know _exactly_ what you're doing, increase the conductivity of
the cerebral tissues, and reverse the numbing effects from ingesting
the lower forms of energy (conventional food) during extremely
demanding parts of yogic practice, which seems to be the reason why
some yogis smoke ganja. However, I still think that it's a desperate
move and I would use other methods in their place; for instance, a
bath in the pure sea water, combined with samyama on the water element
as the lowest; I would go from there. I would also drink lots of pure
mineral water with high pranic content, and avoid almost any kind of
food, providing the needed energy with breathing. That, of course,
makes sense only during short periods of intense practice. I tried it
all, BTW.

>>however, it creates a severe disturbance in the pranic body, which can
>>"supercharge" the astral body and lead to a distorted perception.
>>Heroin is the worst thing I've seen, ever. It destroys the brain, and
>>the cerebral prana looks like it's been processed with a blender;
>>those people have a dull look in their eyes and I fear that their
>>brains are fully destroyed.
>
>But what about William S. Burroughs? The guy was a full-on opiate
>addict and junkie for most of his life. Yet by his reputation he was
>also an extremely intellectual thinker & writer ... not at 'brain
>destroyed'.

I never met him nor read his writings, so I can't tell. You can
maintain intellectual abilities, while having the potential for
feeling subtle aspects of consciousness destroyed. Nietzche, for
instance, was a good philosopher, but he was also a spiritual midget.

>This one is our 'scarey-evil-Devil-Drug'. Again, is this substance
>inherrently bad,

Well, it isn't inherently bad, you can probably use it for cleaning up
the toilet and then it might even be useful, but if you inject it in
your body then it becomes extremely harmful.

>or are problems to do with the lack of wisdom &
>knowledge of heroin, how to respect this powerful stuff?

It's simply harmful and has no good sides. It drains the dopamine from
the brain and permanently destroys the capacity for experiencing
bliss. That's why the first experience with heroin is the most
powerful; gradually, the effect decreases, and after a while you have
to take it just to be normal, not to get "high". At this stage, you're
an empty shell that was once a human being.

>AFAIK, the
>effects of opiates in the body are actually fairly benign.

This is utterly wrong, for any drug that plays with dopamine
chemistry. Unfortunately, my knowledge of neurology isn't much, but I
could search for articles on the net.

>>... LSD causes very strange and harmful effects, and also seems to destroy
>>the human ability to perceive and manifest higher consciousness.
>
>Ram Dass is who springs to my mind here. I don't suppose you ever met
>him, and did your brain-prana-scan on him?

Nope.

>I'd be really surprised if
>you found he was another spiritually-dead zombie.

Actually, I saw some "renowned spiritual teachers", like Sai Baba or
Maheswarananda, and none of them looked impressive at all. Most of my
friends are more enlightened than they.

>it would seem your opinions on the effects of these drugs are just
>based on your personal experiences with those you know or have seen
>who were high, or had a history of use. You're only one man,
>evaluating a huge subject .. maybe your experiences encompass too
>narrow a scope for proper judgement.

You sound like you really need that to be true. But, let me tell you a
story.
My wife was formerly a prominent member of the "techno community" in
Croatia. She smoked pot and took XTC; she even took it the night
before the day I first met her; I could see the effect in her brain
better than you can see the monitor in front of you, while you read
this. I countered that effect, and in spite of that I raised her
consciousness so much, that she spontaneously performed kecari mudra
and kevala kumbhaka in combination, at the table in the bar where we
had coffee - just because I extended my consciousness within her.
Gradually, in last two years, we've been working on reversing the
brain damage caused by the chemicals that she used; her concentration
and memory have been seriously damaged; after more than a year of
yogic practice, her concentration and memory are better than ever;
also, she is able to compare drug induced experiences with _real_
spiritual experiences.
So, it's not that my experience is as limited as you think.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Vicko Vitasovic

"Vicko Vitasovic" wrote:
>> Da, samo je problem sto prosjecan, a bome i iznadprosjecan krscanin (da ne
>> kazem katolik), misli da "obratiti se" znaci brijati na Isusa i vjerovati
>u
>> Iskupljenje, pa da je to to. Ali nije.
>
>Problem je u tome sto covjek koji nije krscanin vjeruje da se moze spasiti
>vlastitim snagama (vise-manje) i da je to moguce. Ali nije.

Ja ne znam sto da Tebi vise velim. Svaki put Ti netko kaze da je to
neistina, a Ti opet svoje.
Ma tko to ovdje misli da se moze bez Boga spasiti, daj malo navedi
primjere, imena i prezimena, konkretne ljude i sustave. Pogledaj moju
osnovnu meditaciju, pa ces vidjeti da je osnovni zahtjev predati se
Bogu, prihvatiti ga i obozavati, od Boga dobiti snagu. Kod kriye,
osnovna fora je predati se Bogu, uspostaviti dodir s Bogom, i pustiti
tom dodiru da nas prociscuje. Unutarnji prostor je tehnika kojom se
Bozji pogled usmjerava prema necistocama unutar svijesti i rastvara
ih. Citava trehnika se dakle bavi samo Bogom, od Boga pocinje, radi s
Bozjom snagom i vodi Bogu.
Ti si jedan obicni lazljivi pasji sin.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Zoran Znidaric

"Zoran Znidaric" wrote:
>Interesantno je da je na predavnju, bio i jedan nas susjed od 50 godina
>starosti, kojeg nije ni truncicu pomaknu s mjesta u njegovim stvaovima.
>Prepoznao ga je kao jednog fantatika, Talibana koji je pobjegao iz
>Afganistana, pa sada ovdje hoce siriti Islam i samo Islam, odnosno u nasem
>slucaju krscanstvo.

Ja mislim da se tu radi o ocitom i neprikrivenom djelovanju vraga.
Naime, djavao je ubojica duse i lazac. Pametnom dosta.
Sve sto sam do sada vidio od Rufusa nedvosmisleno lici na vrazju
rabotu: kad se on pojavi negdje, astral ode u vrazju mater i okupi se
vise mrakova u atmosferi nego za valpurgiju. Vec je i to dosta da se
ustvrdi kako se radi o crnom magu. Ovakve price kakvu si ispricao samo
doprinose tom dojmu.
Kad se negdje pojavi svetac, atmosfera se procisti, i duhovne teznje
ljudi se pojacaju. Kad se pojavi takav mrak, svi se bave samo vragom i
demonima, a Bog je vise misaona imenica nego ziva stvarnost, neka
vrsta alata koji sluzi za bavljenje vragom, pa makar to bavljenje
imalo oblik "istjerivanja".

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Darko Majdic

Darko Majdic wrote:
>Ukratko koliko god ti sad naveo progonjenih i nastradalih znanstvenika,
>sve ti se svodi na jednu stvar. Vecina tadasnjih europskih drzava,
>kraljevina i sl. je bilo pod utjecajem Crkve do te mjere da je Crkva
>mogla imati cak i zakonski monopol na tumacenje Biblije i sve ostalo
>naucavanje krscanske vjere.

To je jako dobar razlog da se Crkvi nikad vise ne da moc u ruke i da
je se drzi posve na margini utjecaja. Ocigledno je cak i u danasnje
vrijeme da, kad Crkva namirisi moc, istog casa pocinje s progonima
neistomisljenika. Uvijek. Primjer: za komunizma, dok je Crkva sama
bila progonjena, sve je bilo OK, divno i krasno. Sada, pocinju lovovi
na vjestice u vidu (izmisljenih) najezda sotonista (na kraju je ispalo
da je u Hrvatsku doslo vise uvoznih egzorcista nego sotonista, i da je
citava stvar predstavljala smisljenu katolicku propagandu straha),
pocinju propagandni ratovi protiv novodobnih i indijskih sustava,
pocinje huskanje rulje protiv Maharishijevaca kojima se ne dopusta
kupiti zemlju da bi napravili nekakvu svoju skolu, a istovremeno se
uvodi katolicki vjeronauk u skole i vrtice.
Sve u svemu, namirisali ste krv i odmah ste digli glave. Ocito vam se
ne smije dati nimalo slobode, treba vas mlatiti trnovitom batinom i
onda cete biti dobri i pobozni, a cim vam se da moc, koristite je da
biste uklonili sve koji se s vama ne slazu.
Stoko licemjerna.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org

X-Ftn-To: Jahnu

chekitan@bahnhof.se (Jahnu) wrote:
>On Thu, 10 May 2001 11:35:42 +0200, Danijel Turina
> wrote:
>>Well, people can find lots of strange things when they search the web
>>archives... and I wanted to inform myself about you, since you were
>>something that is seldom seen, and you actually foamed enough to
>>threaten to kill me, if you remember?
>
>I threatened to kill you?? Muahaha.

"Actually I wish I could get my hands on you and wring your scrawny
little neck, or stomp my foot down your throat to make you shut up.
That would give me great satisfaction."

Written by chekitan@bahnhof.se (Jahnu), on 1999, available at
www.deja.com if you know the right keywords.

>Why would I want to do that?

Because you are mentally imbalanced, you have a totally destroyed
energetic system and violence, verbal or whatever, is the only thing
that can give you some energy, because love, or any positive feeling,
is utterly unknown to you; your falsehood and repression have closed
you for it. I pity you.

>You are completely insignificant,

Not enough so for you not to hate me bitterly, it seems.

>and you are a pathological liar,

No, but in fact, _you_ are. I caught you lying two times in four
messages, and those two times were actually the only ones where you
actually added some information to your raving aggression.

>with a
>huge, inflated false ego, and your book is a piece of garbage,
>obviously the reflections of an insane mind.

It seems that you see only what's within you: a feeling of
worthlessness, garbage all over, ego inflation and insanity. I'd
really like to make a hologram of you and display it to my students,
to show them what they would look like if they attempt to practice
some distorted "spiritual" practice, which combines sexual
restrictions, intolerance, lack of touch with God, falsehood, and
similar crap.
And it's very interesting to notice that it is BHAKTI yoga, that you
pretend to practice. Chanting God's holy name, which is supposed to
fill you with bhava and prema, with love for God that radiates towards
all beings, to eradicate every trace of aggression, hatred and other
harmful emotions. Look at yourself. Take a good look at yourself and
admit that you became a demonic caricature from Prabhupada's books,
filled with roughness, aggression, hate, envy, spite, filled with need
to belittle others in order to augment your own value.
But it doesn't work. Not even spitting on others prevents you from
feeling worthless, your soul is empty because you have estranged
yourself from God, and you will eventually die alone, angry and
spiteful, in your own emptiness, and you will even then hate love and
light, because you learned to hate them during your life. I hope it
won't go that far, and that you'll come to understanding before that.

>
>
>Don't you have anything better to do?

No, my sole purpose in life is to play verbal games with a raving
lunatic.

--
Homepage: http://www.danijel.org