X-Ftn-To: Marko

Marko wrote:
>Danijel Turina posted:
>
>> Avatar se _ne radja_ na taj nacin,
>> avatarstvo je inicijacija koju avatarski vehikl mora primiti. Isus je
>> do iskusenja u pustinji bio samo avatarski vehikl, a ne i avatar.
>
>Sunyata?

?

--
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X-Ftn-To: Sinisa Knezevic

"Sinisa Knezevic" wrote:
>>>Tko je onda bio Isus?
>>
>>Odi i pogledaj, kakva korist od onoga sto cu Ti ja napisati?
>>Popunjavanje baze podataka, sto li?
>
>Izgleda,no bolje da ju cijelu izbrisem i nacin dosadasnjeg poimanja
>zasnovanog na filozofsko-teoloskim doktrinama.

Da, to bi pomoglo. Pomoglo bi i da ides meditirati.

--
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Dit, dat, dot. The puppets on the strings. Predictable.

X-Ftn-To: Tambek

Tambek wrote:
>Danijel Turina wrote:
>> :)) Vidim da se netko cese tamo gdje ga svrbi.
>> A zasto Ti duso draga ne bi sebe stavio u poziciju nekoga tko je
>> preglup da se odluci za Boga, a Bog mu nece dati drugu sansu? Ne
>> vjerujem da bi bio time pretjerano odusevljen. Sto je recimo s
>> mentalno zaostalima, s djecom koja umru prije nego se njihov um
>> razvije dovoljno da bi po Tvojim kriterijima bili spaseni? Hoce li i
>> oni u pakao, zajedno s okorjelim gresnicima koji su Bogu pljunuli u
>> lice svaki put kad im je pozelio ukazati milost?
>
>
>?ek, ?ek - U Bibliji piše da ?e Bog svima suditi pravedno - Onima kojima
>je više dano, od njih ?e se više i tražiti.

A, vidis da mijenjas pricu. Prvo je bilo binarno, ili si spasen ili si
proklet. Sada je vec da ce se traziti prema tome koliko je dano. A
kako si zamisljas mehanizam provedbe toga?

>By the way - zašto se pozivaš na te skupine?

Zato sto su ekstremni primjeri prilicno dobro sredstvo za trazenje
nedosljednosti neke teorije.

--
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X-Ftn-To: Zoran Znidari?

"Zoran Znidari?" wrote:
>Ponavljam:
>ZASTO BI MI TO UOPCE SLUSALI ?!

Zato sto je istina.

--
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X-Ftn-To: Domagoj Klepac

Domagoj Klepac wrote:
>>Ma izvor toga je postorgazmicki osjecaj krivnje koji nastaje zbog
>>iscrpljivanja pranickog tijela, a koji se cesto pogresno tumaci kao
>>nekakav osjecaj da se radi nesto protiv Bozje volje.
>
>Iscrpljivanja? Sto se ne radi o punjenju pranickog tijela (i fizickoj
>iscrpljenosti ako bas nemas mehanizaciju tipa krevet koji se drma)?

Najcesca vrata orgazma je ona koja jednostavno iscijedi pranu kroz
sva-adhisthana cakru, rezultat cega je stanje kakvo sam spomenuo.
Naravno, ako je orgazam dublji pa prolazi po citavoj vertikali i
izlazi na krunu, ne dolazi do takve iscrpljenosti nego do stanja mira
i opustenosti.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net
Dit, dat, dot. The puppets on the strings. Predictable.

X-Ftn-To: Domagoj Klepac

Domagoj Klepac wrote:
>On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:10:02 +0200, Danijel Turina
>bravely stated:
>>>I dolazak supruge rev.
>>>Moona u Sloveniju pozdravili su najviši
>>>predstavnici vlasti i kulture.
>>
>>Mijesati Moona, koji je po svemu sudeci mrak, s Mahesvaranandom, je
>>tendencionalna objeda.
>
>Tko je Moon?

Nisam pretjerano upucen u njega, ali po onome sto sam cuo nekakva
vrsta krizanca izmedju Davida Koresha, Rajinisha i Rona Hubbarda.
Osnovao je sektu koju naziva "crkva ujedinjenja". Za detalje bih
trebao pogledati na webu.

>>njegovim drustvenim zivotom. Ako je neciji pristup holisticki, to je
>>pozitivan pomak, a to sto je njemu to problem samo je jak pokazatelj
>>da sam u pravu kad drzim kako je taj covjek vampir, zlorabitelj ljudi,
>>koji zeli ljude oslabiti, uciniti ih ovisnima i iskoristavati ih.
>
>Cekaj malo, meni se cini da si sad ipak malo prestrog.

Mozda pretjerujem, ali po onome sto nekome smeta moze se naslutiti sto
zagovara. Po nacinu kako se okomio na holizam mogu se zakljuciti dvije
stvari: ili ide po sistemu "ako A zagovara C, a ja sam B i protivim se
A, onda ja moram zagovarati not-C" pa tako, buduci da New Age pokreti
zagovaraju holizam, on drzi kako se mora holizmu protiviti, ili se pak
protivi holizmu zbog toga sto drzi da nesto nije u redu s holizmom kao
takvim. U prvom slucaju je djetinjast, a u drugom je situacija jos
gora.

>Zapravo sam prilicno
>zahvalan Tambeku sto je forwardirao ovaj intervju, jer je taj frajer
>prilicno pametan prema onom sto Zidov i Tambek pisu po konfi,

:))

>Ja bih stvari postavio
>malo drugacije - doticni nije svjesni manipulator, on je jednostavno
>nekriticki orjentiran na nacin nogometnih navijaca, te samo pljuje po svemu
>sto nije "njegovo". On sam po sebi nije manipulator na nacin na koji je
>manipulator Sai Baba; bez RKC on bi navijao za svoj nogometni klub,
>predavao nesto na nekom faksu ili bio obican gradjanin, nista zlo, nego
>nesto prosjecno.

Vjerojatno.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net
Dit, dat, dot. The puppets on the strings. Predictable.

X-Ftn-To: Sinisa Knezevic

"Sinisa Knezevic" wrote:
>Danijel Turina wrote in message ...
>
>>>Na nacin kao i Isus cisto sumnjam.
>>
>>Ove fore po kojima je Isus nesto posebno mi idu na zivce jer odaju
>>sustinsko neznanje.
>
>Tko je onda bio Isus?

Odi i pogledaj, kakva korist od onoga sto cu Ti ja napisati?
Popunjavanje baze podataka, sto li? U svakom slucaju nije ono sto si
ljudi o njemu misle. Ljudi teze napraviti neki bedasti sistem, po
kojem netko moze biti nesto od dvije ili najvise tri opcije, a kad im
to ne funkcionira, onda se ili resetiraju, ili pokusaju silovati stvar
tako da im se svejedno uklopi. Recimo, ljudi su si smislili pojam
avatara koji lijepe na sve i svasta. Po njihovom, to bi bilo kad Bog u
ljudskom tijelu dodje na Zemlju kako bi ljude poucavao ili sto vec.
Takva ideja je njima bliska, samo nazalost moram reci da nema niceg
pametnog u njoj. Niti je Bog ono sto oni misle da je, niti je fizicki
svijet ono sto misle da je, a niti je inkarnacija ono sto oni misle da
je. Sve u svemu, citava ta prica o avatarima je zrak, praznina, nista.
Nije ni cudo da se onda javljaju svakakvi New Age tipovi po Kundalini
listi koji govore da su svi avatari. To je logicna posljedica nekoliko
premisa, prve da je Bog sveprisutan i temelj stvarnosti, druge da je
atman jedan i nepodijeljen i identican brahmanu, trece da su atman i
Bog istoznacnice, i cetvrte konacne da prisutnost atmana znaci
inkarnaciju Boga. Te sve premise ne ukljucuju jedan sitni detalj,
naime ako je Bog temelj svih stvari, onda nije bas vjerojatno da ce um
nekavog polurazvijenog primata moci nesto suvislo o njemu znati, a da
se ne zadavi u vlastitim proturjecnostima. Zato se radi spoznaje Boga
ne predlaze umovanje, koje je u tu svrhu beskorisno, nego naprotiv
meditacija, uranjanje u izravno iskustvo Boga.

>>My ass. Nema prve, druge i trece Bozanske osobe, to su samo mentalne
>>konstrukcije.
>
>O cemu se onda radi u toj dogmi?

Ni o cemu, to je pokusaj da se nesto o cemu um ne moze misliti prevede
u nesto o cemu bi mogao misliti, pa je rezultat taj da to vise nema
pretjeranu povrsinu preklapanja sa stvarnoscu. To s trojstvom je
nekakva analogija, pokusaj pojednostavljenja koji spasava logicara od
kontradikcija, ali ako je se pocne uzimati doslovno onda se mora reci
da nema veze sa stvarnoscu.

>>Sto Ti uopce mozes
>>znati o svemu tome, Ti spekuliras je li Isus inkarnacija Shive, kao da
>>postoje samo trojica pametnih gore koji se tu i tamo inkarniraju da bi
>>igrali sah, a kad se netko od ljudi prosvijetli onda se valjda
>>pridruzi tom odabranom klubu.
>
>Tocno,spekuliram jer me koci krscanski odgoj sa svojom eksluzivnoscu pa
>usporedjujem s hinduizmom i radim paralele.Imam neku fikciju da postoji par
>odredjenih principa,bica koja se povremeno spustaju.

;) Da, to se vidi. Stvari su na svu srecu daleko bolje od toga.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net
Dit, dat, dot. The puppets on the strings. Predictable.

X-Ftn-To: Sinisa Knezevic

"Sinisa Knezevic" wrote:
>>Moje misljenje o Sai Babi je da se radilo o
>>nekoj vrsti "avatarskog vehikla" - cini se da nije zacet seksualnim
>>putem, nego tako sto se "kugla plavog svjetla" sjedinila s tijelom
>>njegove majke.
>
>"Bezgresno" zacece??

Kakvo sad bezgresno zacece, to je pojam koji se u teologiji KC odnosi
na Marijino zacece a ne Isusovo. Ako se govori o Isusovom zacecu onda
se govori ne o bezgresnom zacecu, nego o zacecu po duhu svetome.

>Na nacin kao i Isus cisto sumnjam.

Ove fore po kojima je Isus nesto posebno mi idu na zivce jer odaju
sustinsko neznanje.

>No jednom sam cuo na
>TV gdje je Fatma nur Dzenet rekla da je u islamu poznato da se i sejtan moze
>tako utjeloviti.

Islam nije mjerodavan ni za sto.

>IMHO,nije bitno kako se nesto utjelovljuje vec sto se
>utjelovljuje.

A dobro jutro, o tome se i prica.

>Btw,jeli se uvijek Avatar spusta na taj nacin,nespolnim
>zacecem?

Mislim da si promasio citav koncept. Ja nisam govorio o avataru nego o
avatarskom vehiklu, "vozilu". Avatar se _ne radja_ na taj nacin,
avatarstvo je inicijacija koju avatarski vehikl mora primiti. Isus je
do iskusenja u pustinji bio samo avatarski vehikl, a ne i avatar. Tek
kad se svojom voljom odrekao sebe i u cijelosti se posvetio Bogu,
prodjelovao je kao avatar. Kad se pak avatarski vehikl pokloni sotoni,
onda decki gore imaju nocnu moru po imenu Sai Baba. Meni se cini da je
Sai Baba _trebao_, ili bar _mogao_ biti ili stvarni avatar, ili barem
jedan od onih velikih koji pripremaju put, nekakav ekvivalent Ivana
Krstitelja. Ali nekako mi se ne da na ovoj konferenciji pisati o
takvim stvarima buduci da valjda jedino Felix kuzi o cemu pricam, a
ostali imaju problema s elementarnim stvarima. Ova konfa se u zadnje
vrijeme u religijskom smislu srozala ispod razine djecjeg vrtica.

>>Isusova zrtva na krizu ne razlikuje se previse od Buddhine zrtve;
>
>Ali se razlikuje Njegovo poslanje kao Sina Trojednog,Druge bozje osobe.To se
>zbilo prvi i predzadnji put u povijesti.

My ass. Nema prve, druge i trece Bozanske osobe, to su samo mentalne
konstrukcije.

>>najcesce se Shiva spominje kao taj koji placa cijenu
>>dobrobiti drugih, on je taj na kojemu se cijepaju drva.
>
>Sto mislis o teorijama kako je Isus inkarnacija Sive?

Mislim da su jednako glupe kao i one da je Bozji jednorodjeni sin.
Isus nije nista od toga, to su sve samo nekakve umne masturbacije
kojima ljudi pokusavaju reducirati svijet tako da stane u njihovu
glavu. Kao da "gore" postoje dvije-tri face koje se moze znati po
imenu, a ovo je sve njihovo kazaliste lutaka. Zemlja je jedna cestica
nicega, tu ima sest milijardi ljudi koje uglavnom sacinjavaju bica
uzasno primitivne svijesti, kojima je prosla inkarnacija bila
zivotinjska. Oni koji su nesto u stanju razumjeti uzasno su rijetki,
ima ih valjda deset na citavom svijetu, a zbog ogranicenja koja im
namece nisko razvijeni mozak homo sapiensa oni jednostavno ne mogu
primiti kvalitetne koncepte stvarnosti. Rezultat toga su stotine slabo
kvalitetnih sranja koja ljudi zovu religijama, od krscanstva preko
buddhizma do vedante. To je sve kuruza s kojom se hrani nizi manas.
Ljudi uopce nisu ni po cemu bitni, a ima ih uzasno mali broj, posve je
glupo misliti da ono sto se na ovom svijetu desava ima nekakvi
globalni znacaj. Kad netko ovdje donese nekoliko sicusnih Bozanskih
atributa odmah ga proglase za Boga ili njegovog jedinog sina, umjesto
da shvate koliko su daleko od bilo cega pametnog. Vec i na nekakvom
malo visem mentalnom svijetu na svako ljudsko bice koje zivi na Zemlji
imas bilijun bica od kojih je vecina reda velicine Isusa po duhovnoj
snazi. Netko tko takvo nesto vidi mora pasti u totalni ocaj jer mu se
pokaze koliko mu je vrijednost u stvari jadna. Sto Ti uopce mozes
znati o svemu tome, Ti spekuliras je li Isus inkarnacija Shive, kao da
postoje samo trojica pametnih gore koji se tu i tamo inkarniraju da bi
igrali sah, a kad se netko od ljudi prosvijetli onda se valjda
pridruzi tom odabranom klubu. Covjece, ljudsko bice kad se
prosvijetli, u ljudskom smislu, tek se rodi kao nize razvijeno bice u
okolini takvih, nadje se u okruzenju takvih velicina da je to
nepojmljivo, tek se onda po pravim kriterijima moze poceti razvijati.
Zemlja je kozmicka kanta za smece u kojoj zive totalne budale, nesto
reda velicine govna s dusom crva, takvi nisu u stanju ni misliti
pametno ni osjecati cisto, kako bi uopce bilo moguce da se u njihovoj
svijesti pojavi kvalitetan koncept onoga sto se u stvarnosti desava
ovdje?

>>Onda sam se poceo baviti nekakvom
>>meditacijom, pa sam isao meditirati na Isusa
>
>Kako si tada meditirao,mozes to malo opisati?

Ne da mi se ponavljati iste stvari svakih par mjeseci zato sto je
netko bio rastresen pa nije obracao paznju kad sam to ucinio zadnji
put.

>>sto je rezultiralo takvim
>>blazenstvom da sam jedva ostao ziv, i to samo zato sto nije predugo
>>trajalo,
>
>Prema onome sto si pisao o sebi cini mi se da ti je Sai bio samo link do
>Isusa i da ti je u stvari On Ucitelj,da si iniciran kroz Njega?

To je cisti kurac od teorije, nije meni ucitelj ni Sai Baba ni Isus ni
nista takvo, istina je nesto sasvim deseto i to Ti nikako ne mozes
shvatiti. Ako bas hoces, mogu Ti ponoviti ono sto mi je Bog rekao
nedavno, da je ono sto ja opazam kao sebe ono sto nastane kad nekoliko
Bozanskih aspekata pogleda materiju. Sad si Ti to racionaliziraj kako
hoces, kao sto sam ja nekad pokusavao, samo to Ti je sve skupa kurac,
da odes godinama meditirati onda bi to mozda i shvatio, a ovako samo
gubis vrijeme na pizdarije.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net
Dit, dat, dot. The puppets on the strings. Predictable.

X-Ftn-To: Radoslav Prica

Stovanje Felix!

Radoslav.Prica@helicom.fido.hr (Radoslav Prica) wrote:
>MA>Znas ono u Judge Dreadu kako je stalone
>MA>usao u wc i nasao se u konfrontaciji sa "tri skoljke". Ko zna...;))
>
> Nisam to gledao na zalost :((

Nije to iz Judge Dreada nego iz Demolition Mana.

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net
Dit, dat, dot. The puppets on the strings. Predictable.

X-Ftn-To: Zoran Znidari?

"Zoran Znidari?" wrote:

>... jednu krivu stvar, koju je izrekao.
>http://maestro.com/~ssb/wyc2/packet/d11181999.html

It was during this time that I began to observe things that made me
question what I had experienced on previous visits. Having a
scientific background I began to observe a set routine that Sai Baba
followed each morning and evening during darshan, and in particular,
how he materialised vibhuti (holy ash).

I will never forget the look of anguish on Sai Baba's face when he
came into the verandah of the Mandir early one morning and dropped two
vibhuti pellets in front of me, as he attempted to accept a rose from
a college student. There was no vibhuti materialisation during darshan
that morning!

In the months that followed I observed how he transferred these
vibhuti pellets from one hand to the other, using the letters he
collects from devotees to disguise his movements. In the many
interviews that followed I also observed more than thirty instances of
rings, 'diamonds', japamalas, vibhuti containers etc, all being
produced by sleight of hand and deception.

At first I kept this information to myself. I reasoned that if this
was what made people come to see Sai Baba, resulting in them becoming
more spiritual, what harm could it do! Eventually I told my wife and
children, who also saw through this 'materialisation' trickery.

It was the observations and information that followed on from these
initial findings that concerned me most, especially those relating to
students being sexually interferred with in grotesque ways by Sai
Baba.

We returned to the ashram several times during the following years,
making further observations and having these confirmed by college
students and long term devotees living at the ashram. During this time
I was the central coordinator for three years for the Sathya Sai
organisation in Australia.

It wasn't until 1993, following the assassination attempt on Sai Baba,
resulting in the murder of four college students and two assistants in
the Mandir, that we made our last visit to India.

The purpose of this visit was to find the reason why former students
of Sai Baba's college would want to kill him, particularly when they
had been given a free education!

The eye witness accounts were horrific! After bursting into the
Mandir, four students found themselves trapped upstairs where Sai Baba
was staying. Each was interrogated by police, then one at a time they
were executed!

The stench of death was everywhere.

I made further inquiries about Sai Baba having sexual relations with
college boys and male students - some of these as young as seven years
of age - and whether this was the reason for former students wanting
to kill him. I was told, to my horror, that this was an acceptable
Indian practice!

I felt sick, and just wanted to take my family and leave the ashram
and India as quickly as possible.

Before we did, we were all called for interview with Sai Baba and we
told him what we had experienced and been told.

Sai Baba made no comment on our accusations and was only anxious to
know who had told us these details, requesting us to tell him several
times! Having had dozens of interviews over the years, this was the
most stressful and uncomfortable interview our family had ever
experienced.

Sai Baba was tense and agitated and his body language told us all,
that what we had found out about him was the truth!
We left the interview and returned to Australia.

......
Regarding the notice of expulsion of Dr Bhatia in the Sanathana
Sarathi magazine, please note :

Three young students from Sai Baba's junior male college were called
for interview. One of them, a seven year old boy student, came out of
the private interview room crying.

He continued to cry for two days, and was unable to eat or study.
That evening Dr Bahtia, on duty in the children's canteen, was asked
to find the cause of the child's distress.

He questioned and then examined the child, and found that he had been
sexually penetrated, via his anus.

The child was taken to Bangalore and re-examined. A second medical
opinion confirmed sexual abuse.

Dr Bhatia had been involved in sexual activity with Sai Baba for six
years, believing that he was serving divinity.

He went to Sai Baba :
- Why do you do this to such a young child when you have all of us
adults and the older students to play with?


Sai Baba's reply :
- Don't bargain with God!
....
Whenever Swami came to Bangalore, there always used to be a few
students who got interviews every other day.

These students were often referred to as those who are 'in form' (a
cricket analogy) with Swami. These students were among the most
privileged in the hostel. They could go outside the hostel (not
normally allowed) as and when they like, and behave specially. The
wardens and lecturers used to consult them before anything significant
was done in the hostel. These students kept within themselves for most
of the time. I was preoccupied with my own troubles and did not keep
any close look at these, though I was curious.

When I got to know about Swami from my seniors, they asked me if I
noticed anything strange about the hostel. I told them. They smiled
and asked me to keep an open eye, promising they would tell me all
about it soon. It did not take me very long to find out what was
different about these students. They were all gay. Now, kindly bring
down those raised eyebrows my dear reader. All the indications, body
languages, special jokes about husband and wives etc were there and it
did not take a sleuth's effort to divine what was going on. I told
about this to my seniors and the fact they told me was startling to
say the least.

Many of these students were made gay ('sodomized' would be an
unrefined word) by Swami, who himself is a gay. (!)

I did not believe it when they told me this. But not long after, I
heard the experiences as narrated by students who had undergone the
trauma themselves. Now, it so happened that a couple of these students
were Tamils, with whom I became friendly quite soon.

One of them used to tell me harrowing stories. When Swami was in
Brindavan he used to get the call for interview at least once in three
days. Whereas a student when he gets an interview is usually so elated
and pleased that Swami has recognised his devotion etc - this boy,
let's call him Nandan, always had a grim face as he walked into the
bungalow.

He never attended classes those days in which he got an interview. I
have often seen him show marks in his chest and chin and say a flow of
choice words of slang. Nandan often used to get covers (envelopes)
from Swami in public and sometimes he would be asked to open one. It
would contain crisp hundred rupee notes.

(David's note: I have seen this happen many times).

There is another word for giving money for such acts. Nandan was
helpless. He could not go home and complain. His family and parents
were devotees for thirty years and their very lives had been defined
around Baba. Nandan, since he knew the world, has been knowing Swami
and none else as God. He was first initiated into doing this when he
was in school. Swami told him that he (Swami) was the only purusha in
the world and the whole world was his wife. Nandan was asked to think
of himself as Radha, devoted to the Krishna.

Nandan's whole attitude towards life is now irrevocably changed.
There was another boy, Kumar (say), who was called for interview the
first time. He was so elated. That afternoon a bunch of us went up to
him (he was our junior) and asked him what happened. He had a blissful
look on his face as he spoke. "Swami asked me if I had stomach ache? I
said by Swami's grace I don't. Swami laughed and said 'Why do you have
to hide it from me? Tell me, do you have stomach ache?' I don't know
why but I said yes. Swami then said he will cure it and produced
sandalwood oil from thin air and rubbed it on my stomach and below. I
will never forget the experience". We did not need such proofs
however. It was always obvious. Jokes with double meanings, pattings
on the cheek, pinching students.

He had the horrible habit of putting his hand inside the shirt pocket
and pinching the chest.

Students who entered this quicksand of destruction, whether willingly
or otherwise, lead an unspeakable life. Devoted students held them in
awe and the students who knew, either despised them or pitied them.
And they had no recourse.
....
http://www.bridgeoflove.com/bookstore/icke/magazine/vol12/articles/findings1.html

"My life is my message".... how true indeed. :)))

--
Web (Kundalini-yoga): http://danijel.cjb.net
Dit, dat, dot. The puppets on the strings. Predictable.